[PP-discussions] [Bureaucratie ] Fwd: [pp-leaders] CoA complaint: motions relating to..
renc
rencontres3 at gmail.com
Dim 21 Déc 00:02:15 CET 2014
Thanks steph..
Tu lis dix lignes de ce genre d'antipoesie..
et tu comprends pourquoi définitivement 99% des personnes sensées..
(et surtout celles à qui la biologie
permet du positif concret comme pouvoir être mère..)
se détournent et rejettent totalement ce qui peut ressembler de près ou de
loin à de la politique politicienne...
Le vendredi 19 décembre 2014, Larose75 <Larose75 at partipirate.org> a écrit :
> international
>
> bon ca chauffe un peu sur la ml pp international
>
> pour ceux que ca interesse... (en attendant le retour de nos "délégués
> internationaux" (j'ai pas tout compris sur qui représente le pp dans tout
> ca pour l'instant))
>
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [Bureau]
> [pp-leaders.discussion] Fwd: [pp-leaders] CoA complaint: motions relating
> to affiliation fees Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 17:10:05 +0200 From: Vassilis
> Perantzakis <vaspervnp at yahoo.gr>
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vaspervnp at yahoo.gr');> To:
> pp-leaders.discussion at lists.pp-international.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pp-leaders.discussion at lists.pp-international.net');>,
> coa at pp-international.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','coa at pp-international.net');>
>
> My question is on the minutes that seem to be partial. Is there perhaps
> a recording of the GA 2014? Any more information around this?
>
> *“Result: we will have fees Final result: There will be membership fees,
> 1/10th of the original proposal, parties with less than 500 members can pay
> as much as they want (but a minimum of more than 0€), there are no
> penalties for not paying, observer membership is also not associated with
> any costs, the first fees are due for the next financial year (which begins
> tomorrow)†*
>
> As Brendan pointed out to me and as written in the complaint, these
> decisions seems to be contrary to the Statues.
>
> I also have a question on the way votes were counted at GA 2014 according
> to the 2/3 rule. Abstain votes were counted in the total of votes to get a
> 2/3 vote, or was the rule not applied at all and simple majority used?
>
> I wait the rest of the members of the COA to voice their opinions and
> questions with great interest.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Vassilis Perantzakis
>
> PPI COA
>
> PP-GR
>
> vaspervnp at yahoo.gr <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vaspervnp at yahoo.gr');>
>
> 00306931945371
>
>
>
> *From:* pp-leaders.discussion [
> mailto:pp-leaders.discussion-bounces at lists.pp-international.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pp-leaders.discussion-bounces at lists.pp-international.net');>]
> *On Behalf Of *Josef Ohlsson Collentine
> *Sent:* Friday, December 19, 2014 12:55 PM
> *To:* pp-leaders.discussion at lists.pp-international.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pp-leaders.discussion at lists.pp-international.net');>
> *Subject:* [pp-leaders.discussion] Fwd: [pp-leaders] CoA complaint:
> motions relating to affiliation fees
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I can only see bad things coming from CoA dealing with it no matter what
> they decide... We all know PPI statutes are a complete mess so leaning on
> them as hard as has been done here is just abusing the current mess PPI is
> in. The complaint might definitely hold true but what is
> accomplished? Would encourage PPAU to withdraw this complaint for the
> greater good of PPI.
>
> What is the real motive for bringing this up now? Causing more internal
> chaos within PPI? Avoiding PPAU fees?
>
>
>
> Kindly,
>
> Josef
>
>
> *International Contact for PPSE*
> Contact me for any questions/concerns or if you need to get hold of
> someone in Piratpartiet or internationally.
>
>
>
> *Other contact:*
>
> mail: international at piratpartiet.se
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','international at piratpartiet.se');>
>
> Twitter: @collentine
>
> Skype: josef.ohlsson.collentine (only important conversations)
>
> Cel: +46 73 824 98 49 (text me, if urgent)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Brendan Molloy* <brendan.molloy at pirateparty.org.au
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','brendan.molloy at pirateparty.org.au');>>
> Date: Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 2:06 AM
> Subject: [pp-leaders] CoA complaint: motions relating to affiliation fees
> To: Court of Arbitration <coa at pp-international.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','coa at pp-international.net');>>
> Cc: "pp-leaders at lists.pp-international.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pp-leaders at lists.pp-international.net');>" <
> pp-leaders at lists.pp-international.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pp-leaders at lists.pp-international.net');>>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Dear Court of Arbitration,
>
> Please accept our following complaint for consideration.
>
> An HTML version of the complaint is available here:
>
>
> https://gist.github.com/bbqsrc/fc7a05121272a23804f1/730b5ae96e1912ea52bbb3697084e27cc0157a26
>
> Please acknowledge receipt of this email as soon as possible.
>
> Thanks!
>
> ## Complaint
>
> PPAU requests that the Court of Arbitration hears a challenge against
> motions relating to affiliation fees at the 2014 General Assembly,
> specifically due to recent minutes of the PPI Board indicating that
> they are likely to move ahead with attempts to acquire fees from
> members.
>
> PPAU consents to abide by the decision of the Court of Arbitration.
>
> ## Challenge
>
> This challenge relates to CoA powers [XIVa(3)(a), (b), and (e)][XIVa],
> and relates to the functioning of the General Assembly and PPI Board.
>
> ### Validity of affiliation fee-related motions
>
> The minutes in question can be found here:
> http://wiki.pp-international.net/Minutes_of_GA_2014
>
> As there are no titles in the minutes, we cannot link to the relevant
> section.
>
> Please search for the following to find it:
>
> > delay or not 9.5 in favour, 12 opposed, 2 abstentions Result: we
> > discuss the hight of the fees now
>
> As the minutes are a complete mess, we have attempted to decipher as
> best as possible what the actual proposals were to begin with, and what
> the conclusion is.
>
> PPAU would like to note for posterity that these minutes are not of the
> quality expected of an international organisation and the members
> should seriously consider ensuring that the quality of the minutes is
> significantly improved in the future.
>
> Based on our analysis we believe the events to be as follows:
>
> * "Board MOP for Membership fees at PPI" begins
> * Discussion occurs.
> * A vote to delay voting and discussion does not carry.
> * A vote on whether or not to discuss Gregory Engels' proposed
> HDI-based fees or a "1/10 proposal", which seems to mean 10% of the
> original HDI-based proposal.
> * That vote results in a discussion of the 1/10 proposal.
> * A motion by PPEE that parties with less than 500 members will choose
> their own fees, seems to have carried but is not noted in the
> minutes.
> * A motion to have voluntary fees for all seem to not carry, not noted.
> * A motion whether fees are wanted at all, based on the tenuous phrase
> in brackets "based on what we decided for so far" carries with 55.8%
> support (not including abstentions).
> * The minutes then assert that what had been agreed to is as follows:
>
> > There will be membership fees, 1/10th of the original proposal,
> > parties with less than 500 members can pay as much as they want (but
> > a minimum of more than 0€), there are no penalties for not paying,
> > observer membership is also not associated with any costs, the first
> > fees are due for the next financial year (which begins tomorrow)
>
> PPAU fails to see how such a result could be derived as:
>
> * No conclusive vote as to the mechanism for determining the fees was
> carried, specifically no motion carried that meets the requirements
> of [XVI(1) or (2)][XVI];
> * A feelings-based motion on whether fees are wanted carries, but it
> is a tenuous, meaningless motion, that is also not valid as per the
> statutes due to [XI(2)][XI], which stipulates that annual affiliation
> fee motions must meet a two-thirds threshold;
> * PPEE's motion does not specify that the fees must be greater than 0,
> and therefore the assertion is again false;
> * Notwithstanding the above, due to no fee as per [XVI(1)][XVI] being
> determined, PPEE's motion is therefore irrelevant for the time being;
> * "No penalties" was not agreed to nor discussed, and is also false due
> to [XI(5)][XI], which stipulates that failure to pay fees can result
> in voting rights being suspended;
> * No discussion or vote was taken regarding fees for observer members,
> and therefore the tenuous assertion is without purpose or merit as
> it bears no relevance to the discussion at hand; and
> * No vote affirming the complex assertion being questioned here is
> recorded within the minutes.
>
> #### Relevant statutes:
>
> > XI Voting
> >
> > [~snip~]
> >
> > (2) Decisions concerning the admission of new Members (section III.
> > paragraph 4), the exclusion of Members (section VII, paragraph 2),
> > the determination of the annual affiliation fee (section XVI,
> > paragraph 1) and the amendment of this[sic] Statutes (section XX),
> > shall be passed by a two thirds majority of the votes cast.
> >
> > [~snip~]
> >
> > XV. Funding
> >
> > Pirate Parties International expenditure shall be covered by:
> >
> > a) affiliation fees from the Ordinary Members parties and those with
> > Observer status,
> >
> > [~snip~]
> >
> > XVI. Affiliation Fees
> >
> > (1) The amount of the fee is determined annually by the General
> > Assembly.
> >
> > (2) The affiliation fees and contributions shall be fixed in
> > relation to the finances and membership of parties.
>
> [XI(2)][XI] clearly stipulates that motions relating to [XVI(1)][XVI]
> must carry with a two-thirds majority of votes cast.
>
> [XV(a)][XV] implies that observer members should be included in any
> calculation of affiliation fees in [XVI][XVI].
>
> [XVI][XVI] as a whole seems to imply that (1) should be a fixed number,
> and that (2) should apply a formula to that number consistently in
> relation to size and finances of a party, without exception.
>
> ### Suitability of PPI board accepting affiliation fees at this time
>
> Recent minutes of the PPI board state that the board intends to soon
> begin requesting membership fees, but these very same minutes put into
> question whether or not the banking situation has been resolved
> sufficiently to begin taking large amounts of money from around the
> world.
>
> Relevant URLs:
>
> * http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Minutes_2014-11-29#3_Short_Reports
> * http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Minutes_2014-12-09#3_Short_Reports
> *
>
> http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Minutes_2014-12-09#7_Financial_Situation
> *
>
> http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_Minutes_2014-12-09#8_AOB_.28being_urgent.29
>
> #### Relevant Statutes:
>
> > XVII. Treasurer
> >
> > [~snip~]
> >
> > (3) The Board is responsible for the sound financial management of
> > Pirate Parties International.
>
> [XVII][XVII] is an odd place to put a requirement of the PPI board to
> be sure, but it is a requirement of the statutes that the board soundly
> manages the finances of PPI, and this has been put into question.
>
> ## Requests
>
> We request that the Court of Arbitration does the following:
>
> 1. Immediately introduces an injunction against the PPI board regarding
> requesting or accepting membership fees until this case is
> concluded, as per the powers of [XIVa(1) and (3)(a)][XIVa];
> 2. Makes a determination that "fixed in relation to the finances and
> membership of parties" should be interpreted to mean a consistently
> applied formula for determining fees based on that criteria, without
> exception;
> 3. Makes a determination that the General Assembly did not approve any
> affiliation fee that would meet the requirements of [XVI(1)][XVI],
> either due to lack of a motion meeting those requirements, or a
> motion failing to carry due to the requirements of [XI(2)][XI];
> 4. Makes a determination that motions relating to affiliation fees must
> meet all of the requirements of [XI(2)][XI],
> [XVI(1) and XVI(2)][XVI];
> 5. Makes a determination as to whether or not [XVI][XVI] applies to
> observer members, as [XV(a)][XV] seems to imply;
> 6. Makes a determination as to whether or not the current PPI board is
> meeting the requirements of [XVII(3)][XVII], which is necessary for
> the purpose of knowing whether it is safe to send affiliation fees
> to the PPI board. Should the board be found to not be meeting these
> requirements, they should be required to apply to the CoA for a
> determination on whether they meet [XVII(3)][XVII] prior to
> requesting any affiliation fees in the future, and;
> 7. Makes a determination that any attempt by the PPI board to accrue
> affiliation fees to be without authority or basis until a future
> General Assembly resolves otherwise.
>
> [XI]: http://wiki.pp-international.net/Statutes#XI._Voting
> [XIVa]:
> http://wiki.pp-international.net/Statutes#XIVa._Court_of_Arbitration
> [XV]: http://wiki.pp-international.net/Statutes#XV._Funding
> [XVI]: http://wiki.pp-international.net/Statutes#XVI._Affiliation_Fees
> [XVII]: http://wiki.pp-international.net/Statutes#XVII._Treasurer
>
> - --
> Regards,
>
> Brendan Molloy
> President
> Pirate Party Australia
>
> M: +61 449 617 246
> W: http://www.pirateparty.org.au
> E: brendan.molloy at pirateparty.org.au
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','brendan.molloy at pirateparty.org.au');>
> T: @piecritic
> PGP: 5721 8A69 1828 21E6
>
> - --
> Pirate Party Australia is a political party based around the core tenets
> of freedom of information and culture; civil and digital liberties;
> privacy and anonymity; and government transparency.
>
> Donate today! http://pirateparty.org.au/donate
>
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